Need Advice on Datafeeds

[Silencio]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and I am here because I need advice, help and guidance with adding datafeeds to my sites so I am hoping that I will find some help here on this wonderful database related forum......

Background: I have been building webpages for about 8-9 years now and I use Dreamweaver in addition to using WordPress in the Semiologic Pro version. I have pages in asp and php but have really come to love php and WordPress.

I am not a programmer but have dabbled with it a little, very little and am not that good at it but I can usually figure things out or find where who can help me.......

I have recently purchased RSS2Blog and have just uploaded my first datafeed from CJ to a WordPress Blog.

I also have recently purchased Teli's DatafeedtoRSS program. Teli if you are around I just want you to know that I have sent you a few emails through your web page over the last few months with no response....so I guess you didn't get them.....but maybe you can help me here on this forum if I need it.

I have a few questions that I still have not figured out yet.....and here they are related to the programs that I have currently.

1. When using a datafeed how often should you update it if you are posting prices? if you are not showing prices?

2. If I am using a program like RSS2Blog to upload your datafeds how do you "Update" the feeds without duplicating them? Might seem like a simple question to the more experienced but I just need to get a handle on this.....thanks please go easy on me.....

3. How would you, using RSS2Blog, set up pages with multiple products using small icons and then have individual pages on the products with larger photos available?

4. When using DatafeedtoRSS and using the "Import" feature on WordPress is there a way to "schedule" the posts to be random? I am thinking not but wondered in case there was....

Thanks much for any help! It is much appreciated

I guess I am also trying to learn more about how to customize and tweak my pages with datafeeds on them......

Charlie

[Linda Buquet]

Hi Charlie,

Welcome to 5 Star. I'll poke Teli to be sure she sees this thread as she can give you the most help probably.

Regarding how often to update. Partly depends on the merchant and how often their stock and/or pricing changes. Even if you don't show prices you want to keep up to date so you don't send a visitor to a product page that's out of stock or re-directs to the homepage.

Ideally you should try to set up a chron job to auto update for you so you don't have to do it manually. I would think you would want to update at least weekly if you do it manually but if it's automatic maybe daily depending on merchant???

I'm not sure about this advice because I don't get as many datafeed questions lately so have not kept up with things as much as I used to on this front.

[Teli]

Teli if you are around I just want you to know that I have sent you a few emails through your web page over the last few months with no response....so I guess you didn't get them.....but maybe you can help me here on this forum if I need it.

Actually, I haven't received them. Now this has me worried that I'm not receiving others' e-mails if they use the contact form on the site, because I set it up to always deliver the e-mails to me...I tout it as the most reliable way to reach me (sending a message via the contact form).

If you don't mind, would you help me figure out why your messages aren't coming through? First, let me know which form you're using to try and contact me (direct link is helpful), the e-mail address you're using (feel free to PM me with it so you don't get on any spambot radar), and whether or not you received any errors when submitting the form.

In the meantime, of course you can get help from me in the forums. Or you can contact me through any of my other contact forms as well.

1. When using a datafeed how often should you update it if you are posting prices? if you are not showing prices?

Depends on how often the merchant updates.

2. If I am using a program like RSS2Blog to upload your datafeds how do you "Update" the feeds without duplicating them?

Unfortunately, I've only used RSS2Blog a few times for other clients so cannot properly answer your question.

I can say that WP's built-in RSS import utility will not republish an entry that has the same title. So, if the datafeed has been updated and the title of the product remains the same, WP wouldn't import it again...however, it also wouldn't update the entry with information that's changed either.

Unfortunately, you may need to contact Michelle for an answer to this question. I know on the WPDFI script, there's a setting to "overwrite" the information of previous imports, so there may be something similar in RSS2Blog.

3. How would you, using RSS2Blog, set up pages with multiple products using small icons and then have individual pages on the products with larger photos available?

Well, again, I'm not well versed with RSS2Blog. Also, I don't know whether it would support custom excerpt imports. If so, then you could customize your WP theme to make use of the special excerpts on the category pages.

For instance, import the products to include the images and links within the excerpt of the entry. Then create a category template that pulls the excerpt info for each post which would then link out to each individual product page.

4. When using DatafeedtoRSS and using the "Import" feature on WordPress is there a way to "schedule" the posts to be random?

Unfortunately no. When WordPress uses the RSS import, it uses the dates within the RSS feed and doesn't play nicely with future dated posts (at the time of this writing).

I hope that gets your questions answered, and if you have any others, you're welcome to ask.

~ Teli

[Silencio]

Thanks Linda,

Hi Charlie,

Welcome to 5 Star. I'll poke Teli to be sure she sees this thread as she can give you the most help probably.

Thanks for getting in touch with Teli....

Regarding how often to update. Partly depends on the merchant and how often their stock and/or pricing changes. Even if you don't show prices you want to keep up to date so you don't send a visitor to a product page that's out of stock or re-directs to the homepage.

Ideally you should try to set up a chron job to auto update for you so you don't have to do it manually. I would think you would want to update at least weekly if you do it manually but if it's automatic maybe daily depending on merchant???

I will do more research on my merchants and how often they update their datafeeds. And setting up a cron sounds like a good idea but wouldn't I have to clean and prep my feed first and if I am doing that I would assume that it would need to be updated right away if it was a new updated feed....

I'm not sure about this advice because I don't get as many datafeed questions lately so have not kept up with things as much as I used to on this front.

Now I did spend a little time on this forum before posting I have it from a good source (this forum) that you are pretty much an expert (datafeed queen) and that you give out prizes (crowns) to those that preform highly with datafeeds (datafeed kings).....so I guess that I need to shake the tree of knowledge a little bit....to get you back up to speed

Thanks for your help.

Charlie

[Silencio]

Hello Teli,

Actually, I haven't received them. Now this has me worried that I'm not receiving others' e-mails if they use the contact form on the site, because I set it up to always deliver the e-mails to me...I tout it as the most reliable way to reach me (sending a message via the contact form).

If you don't mind, would you help me figure out why your messages aren't coming through? First, let me know which form you're using to try and contact me (direct link is helpful), the e-mail address you're using (feel free to PM me with it so you don't get on any spambot radar), and whether or not you received any errors when submitting the form.

I just emailed you from the forms in the WPDFI and the DF2RSS sites to see if you get them. When I did I received an automated reply, like the one that I got before and I was able to search my emails for "WPDFI" and found that it was indeed that site and that I had emailed you on April 05, 2007 and then again on April 19th, 2007. And I just figured that you are very busy and/or didn't get them.....

But they were questions about datafeeds using the WPDFI program as I was considering purchasing it and wanted to make sure of a few of my questions about it first. Needless to say that since I didn't hear back I was unsure as to if I should proceed. Sorry...

Depends on how often the merchant updates.

I guess I need to try and figure this out and would assume that it would be different for each merchant. I will do some research into this and see what I can figure out.

I think I have heard the term "Live Feeds" that automatically update. That would be really nice to have but I am thinking that this doesn't happen very often, does it?

Unfortunately, I've only used RSS2Blog a few times for other clients so cannot properly answer your question.

Thanks, not a fair question for you to try to answer....thanks anyway for trying.

I can say that WP's built-in RSS import utility will not republish an entry that has the same title. So, if the datafeed has been updated and the title of the product remains the same, WP wouldn't import it again...however, it also wouldn't update the entry with information that's changed either.

Unfortunately, you may need to contact Michelle for an answer to this question. I know on the WPDFI script, there's a setting to "overwrite" the information of previous imports, so there may be something similar in RSS2Blog.

Well, again, I'm not well versed with RSS2Blog. Also, I don't know whether it would support custom excerpt imports. If so, then you could customize your WP theme to make use of the special excerpts on the category pages.

For instance, import the products to include the images and links within the excerpt of the entry. Then create a category template that pulls the excerpt info for each post which would then link out to each individual product page.

I am thinking out loud here and know that there has to be some way to control this especially if sites that have hundreds of datafeeds need to be updated on a frequent basis. I just have to dig deeper.....to find an answer. Thanks.

Unfortunately no. When WordPress uses the RSS import, it uses the dates within the RSS feed and doesn't play nicely with future dated posts (at the time of this writing).

That is what I was thinking, just thought I would confirm it.

I hope that gets your questions answered, and if you have any others, you're welcome to ask.

~ Teli

Thanks so much for taking the time to assist as you could. I do appreciate it.

As important as datafeeds are and seem to be I personally am finding it difficult to find answers to many questions that one might have concerning them. So it seems that I will have a lot of learning curves along this path.....But I am sure that I can find what I need to know somewhere.

Thanks again!

Charlie

[TheCaymanHost]

If you haven't done so already (I think there is already a link somewhere on these forums) pay a visit to Carsten Cumbrowski's pages dealing with data feeds.

Lots of useful information and resources to be found there no matter what your level of experience.

Mo

[Linda Buquet]

Good one, thanks Mo!

[Teli]

I think I have heard the term "Live Feeds" that automatically update. That would be really nice to have but I am thinking that this doesn't happen very often, does it?

While Live Feeds are fun to work with because they're usually updated often, it can be a pain because they're often delivered in XML format (some are JavaScript or PHP, though). Basically just the data and you'd need a way to take that data and display it on your site -- and some are very inflexible in how you can display it on the site.

Because there's no set standard for datafeeds (I personally believe their should be) like there is for, say, RSS, the available datafeeds vary greatly and not all available datafeed tools can handle *all* datafeeds as-is.

If you happen to come across a merchant with a live feed, make sure to ask if they have any website tools along with it. That would cut out the need for additional software.

I just emailed you from the forms in the WPDFI and the DF2RSS sites to see if you get them. … And I just figured that you are very busy and/or didn't get them.....

But they were questions about datafeeds using the WPDFI program as I was considering purchasing it and wanted to make sure of a few of my questions about it first. Needless to say that since I didn't hear back I was unsure as to if I should proceed. Sorry...

No need to apologize.

Thank you for taking the time to send another message through my forms (I received both), but it's odd I didn't receive them before. Even went back to my e-mail for those dates and they weren't there, so something probably happened on my server's end which didn't deliver the message to me. Quite strange and I hope temporary.

As I said in the e-mail, I've white-listed your e-mail address, so you're welcome to send me a note directly in the future. And I'll respond to your e-mails directly.

Carsten Cumbrowski's pages dealing with data feeds.

Nice resource, Mo.

~ Teli

[Silencio]

Originally Posted by TheCaymanHost

If you haven't done so already (I think there is already a link somewhere on these forums) pay a visit to Carsten Cumbrowski's pages dealing with data feeds.

Lots of useful information and resources to be found there no matter what your level of experience.

Mo

We are having fun now. Thanks now I am getting lots of info.......on datafeeds. I don't know yet if it will answer my questions but it looks like a great resource.

I sure appreciate it!!! Thanks.

Charlie

[cumbrowski]

Hey Mo, thanks for pointing to my resources to data feeds.

I read the original post and have to say that my resources will not help Charlie very much with his problems with RSS2Blog and DatafeedtoRSS. You might noticed that I do not refer to those services at all. That is by choice and not by accident because frankly, I fail to see their value.

Just creating blog posts from data feeds sounds to me not much better than somebody who uses blog feeds to republish them without providing additional information or any other type value. I would also be careful with that. Affiliates who remember Google's infamous "Florida Update" in 2003 will know what I am talking about. Affiliates were able to cash in via using data feeds and tools like web-merge to create virtually a new site with hundreds or thousands of pages on a single day. This income dried up virtually overnight, when Google's algorithm update, dubbed "Florida" was making those sites disappear from their index.

I have not seen good examples of the use of the mentioned tools. The examples I saw so far do nothing else than affiliates did up to 2003, with the only difference that they are using blogs today instead of static HTML websites. The obviously missing feature of allowing feed updates without duplication of existing content shows that those tools were not designed for that. I would be happy to get proven wrong by providing examples where those tools are used in a good way and be more efficient doing that compared to other tools out there that do not convert data feeds to RSS.

RSS itself is already limiting and an ill fit for data feeds. Useful information, such as the price, manufacturer or attributes like color and size etc. must be squeezed into the description element of the RSS feed, because no elements exist for those things in RSS.


Working with raw data feeds yourself is not easy. There are several problem with this that make things more complicated than they already are by nature (its an interface and interfaces are not simple, unless they are standardized). For example does no standard exist for feeds. They come in all shapes and sizes. Add to that, that most merchants don't know much about data feeds and make basic errors that causes big problems for you if you don't check the data feed integrity every time you pull them. The networks are in general no different, their data feed technology did not improve much over the last 5 years. If you create something of value with the feeds, you can't get around the need to update them frequently. How frequently that is, really depends on the merchants, some update their products daily, some only once or twice a year and everything in between.

My resources will help you with that.
Affiliate Product Data Feeds Resources, Affiliate Network Services Documentations, Guides and Articles

This page links to the relevant stuff, from general guides to very specific things like network data feed structures and scripts/source code how to pull them into your database for processing.

If you promote individual products and blog about them for example, you will not update them of course, but you also have no need for data feeds to do that.

Because networks and merchants failed both, 3rd party vendors popped up to provide non-tech savvy affiliates with tools that make sense, like pulling individual products out of a product catalog (if you ever tried that at CJ for example, you will know why there was a need for this), but also dynamic product creatives that are simply a few lines of javascript with some parameters you can define to determine the types of products to show and the layout. The actual product data are being pulled from the vendor every time the page on your site gets loaded and the vendor worries about keeping the feeds information of each supported merchant up to date.

You can find a number of services that are available for that here.
I don't have a favorite. Each of them is slightly different than the other. MY advice is to check them all out and pick the one that works best for your needs.

Affiliate Product Data Feeds Resources, Affiliate Network Services Documentations, Guides and Articles

Another option is for developers who do not want to deal with the nightmare of updating data feeds themselves and kicking a huge amount of data around that can cause your site to crash and render unusable if you don't watch what the heck you got send from the merchant with the new feed. I am talking about APIs or Web Services here. Amazon and eBay have APIs for ages, networks more the most part don't. CJ launched their web services beta last fall, which is still in beta today for good reasons. A small network that allows access to product data on the fly via an interface is AvantLink. After that are the solutions, if any exists at all more like a workaround than a real help. This includes real-time data feeds. Some APIs (the web services versions of them) use XML. I have a separate resources page just for web services here.

Web Services Development Resources, Articles, Tutorials and Books for Developers

There are other great tools, services and resources out there that have APIs and are useful in combination with product APIs. You can find a bunch of them at the following page, which also refers to resources where you can find out about the vast number of available APIs from the zillions of Web 2.0 services out there who (for the most part) embrace the use of standardized APIs, like SOAP/WSDL, XML-RPC, SAX and other types of web services.

Website Development Resources, APIs and Web Services, XML, Ajax, .NET, PHP

Okay, Wrapping Up /
Sorry for the long post and my rambling, but I guess it wanted out and ReveNews is still in the process of being upgraded, so no blogging about affiliate stuff for me right now .

I hope that you find the information useful and again, if anybody can point me to examples where those Data feed to RSS and/or to Blog tools where used in a good way that will not be considered spam or "little value adding affiliate sites" and kicked out of search engines and other places eventually, where it isn't already the case today, I am all ear and willing to adjust my attitude towards them.

Cheers and happy Labor Day.