Keywords in page titles

[alex123]

hello all,

I am rewriting my page titles and was wondering if it’s ok to use the same keyword more than once? For example my keywords are groups of 2 and 3 words containing the same single word (for example 'ice-cream product name', 'cold drink product name'). Do I use this same word several times or how I can write it. Using the same word several times should bring up that page for a search of the exact keyword phrase but it can also happen search engine viewed it badly as keyword stuffing for that word.

Thanks

[jcorkern]

as long as you do not use it over 3 times you will be safe in the title of the page. Anymore than this may or could potentialy do more harm than good.

Keep the titles simple and direct. You will be fine.

[svtdbird]

Are you talking about title meta tags or the header of your page?

If you're referring to the title meta tags, there's no reason to have the same keyword more than once, unless you really think people will be searching for a term with the same word more than once. Put as many different keywords as you can in your meta tags.

If you're referring to your page headers, then they will fall into the same rule as the rest of the content of your page. The general rule of thumb is 6% of content. So 6 times per 100 words.

[jcorkern]

Keyword density is outdated and is 100% of no effect. Look up LSI or latent symantic indexing to learn more about this.


The title tag, you can use the same keyword more than one, but different phrases. Exaple is "hd tv, and hd television" HD is in it twice, but relevence and exact phrase will make it easier to rank, so the keyword (singular) in the title more than one is ok if used properly.

"Put as many different keywords as you can in your meta tags." Google, yahoo, msn, altavista, alltheweb and such do not read meta keyword tags since they are link popularity engines, so that does not work at all, completely worthless. They do however work in meta search engines like dogpile, metacrawler and askjeeves, but these account for less than 2% of total internet search engine traffic and searches, so in the bigger picture, they are just as worthless as the keyword meta tags.

[svtdbird]

Originally Posted by jcorkern

Keyword density is outdated and is 100% of no effect. Look up LSI or latent symantic indexing to learn more about this.

I just saw another of your posts about this. I wasn't aware of this but it's good to know. But, I didn't read anywhere that says LSI makes density irrelevant.

Originally Posted by jcorkern

"Put as many different keywords as you can in your meta tags." Google, yahoo, msn, altavista, alltheweb and such do not read meta keyword tags since they are link popularity engines, so that does not work at all, completely worthless. They do however work in meta search engines like dogpile, metacrawler and askjeeves, but these account for less than 2% of total internet search engine traffic and searches, so in the bigger picture, they are just as worthless as the keyword meta tags.

You're referring to the "keyword" meta tags. You're right about those. But, I was referring to the "title" meta tags, in which Google and all other search engines still look at.

[jcorkern]

ok, then you need to do some more research to validate this "But, I didn't read anywhere that says LSI makes density irrelevant. "

LSI was what makes adsense work for content, you do not have to use exact phrases to get different, but similar ads on an adsense page.

Let's say your page that you have adsense on is about Jessica Alba, the ads shown may be celebrity, diva, model, actor, actress, gossip type keywords in the ads, and you do not have to have any of these keywords in the content of that page to get the ads displayed for these subjects.

When you go to Google keyword tool and do a search for any given phrase, it ask if you want synonyms. This is LSI and it is also implimented into the natural search results., now, you can block this in your adwords campaign with a negative keyword ad campaign and stop negative keywords (shut off LSI ) in Your ad campaign, but you can never shut it off in natural search.

It is implimented as an anti spam part of the algo, to stop spammers from using keyword stuffing, because it just does not work anymore.


It is basically a character string recognition program and it has been around since 2003.

You should always write for the visitor, not the search engines.


And on that one part I was refering to the meta keywords tag, but as I placed in an example, you can use the same keyword (s) in the title more than once and get great results.

[svtdbird]

Originally Posted by jcorkern

ok, then you need to do some more research to validate this

Originally Posted by jcorkern

Keyword density is outdated and is 100% of no effect.

Can you direct me to anything that backs up your statement? Because it goes against what everyone is still being taught. That you shouldn't use the same keywords too often in your content or it will affect you negatively. What you're saying is that you can use the same keywords in your page content as often as you want and it won't have any negative affect on it at all. True?

It's hard for me to believe that.

[jcorkern]

Ok, I will play your silly game. Matt Cutts: Is Keyword Density Dead?

there is one.

Ok, how about Matt Cutts of Goooooooogle, a Google engineer?

SEO Advice: Writing useful articles that readers will love


As long as it is written naturally, you will have no trouble, if you are just keyword stuffing, you will get into trouble for spam.

But the difference between 1 % density and 12 % density, as long as it makes sense will make NO difference on your rankings.



Now, as a professional SEO for going on 8 years now. Having an annual budget to find the limits and to test the algos on a daily basis, working for major online retailers and placing well over 200 websites into the top 10 for hundreds of thousands of keywords, I can back up anything that I will tell you about seo. I do not speculate. I am here to help, not guess~!

[svtdbird]

Play my game? I just think you made an incorrect statement. I'm not attacking your credentials. And, the two links you just gave proved me right.

Your first one was a forum post where most of the posts where saying density IS important.

Your second link had this quote "I’d recommend thinking more about words and variants (the “long-tail”) and thinking less about keyword density".

No where did I see anything that said it is 100% of no effect, like you said.

So, to all other readers of this forum, density may not be as important as it used to be, but it's still a factor in SEO. And, to the first post of this thread, I would be careful not to overuse the same keywords, but two times in your title is definitely okay.

[jcorkern]

"the two links you just gave proved me right."

You read what you wanted to read. That thread gave a link directly to matt cutts blog that explained that density is no an issue, but I guess you missed that.



"Your second link had this quote "I’d recommend thinking more about words and variants (the “long-tail”) and thinking less about keyword density"."

I would take this as a strong hint from Matt "thinking less about keyword density" He all but spelled it out for anyone that density is NOT a concern, so do not worry about it, so, again, you read what you wanted to.


Here is the big one. "So, to all other readers of this forum, density may not be as important as it used to be, but it's still a factor in SEO."


more specifically "but it's still a factor in SEO" If this were the case, then the next example I will give would not be possible.

Go to google and do a search for "Click Here" , here I will do it for you. here is a link to the search thread of click here click here - Google Search

Now, the number 1 site does not have click here anywhere on the page that ranks number 1, it is a page on adobe.com

Click here is nowhere on the page or the source code, so it is not hidden, yet the sites below it have at least of of the two keywords in the title or content of the ranking page (you can see them in bold on the search thread ). So, since density is important as you say, how does a site that has NONE of the targeted keywords on the page outrank the other pages below it that do have it in title or content?

Guess that blows your theory, ya think? The sites below have more "density" because the winning page has NO density at all. Hmmmm...

Now, let me give you some information. Google, yahoo and MSN are all link popularity engines, they all use LSI or a similar character string analysis system for content, but links are the basic infrastructure for rankings and account for about 80 % of top rankings.

then you have onpage, which accounts for the other 20 some odd % of rankings, and onpage factors start with titile, h tags, bolding, highlighting, underlining, keyword zones, link zones, outbound links and about 60 other factors, so with this much info on onpage alone, and onpage accounting for 20 % or less of rankings in Google, just how important could density be anyway?

Please do not make absolute statements when you are giving false info and proving that you follow the crowd instead of leaving the crowd and making a difference.