Application Declined by ShareaSale - Chicken and the Egg situation

[-Edwin-]

Okay, so i submitted an application to join the network, i had to submit a domain in the process.
On the 2nd page you'll see this copy:

The next step is to identify one website that you will be using with your account. We realize that you may have many different websites, and you will be able to add those on to your account in the future. In the meantime, we only need you to choose your "main" website - which we will use to verify your information entered. 1-->Please Note: Merchants will see this information when you apply for their program, so it is important to list a website that is complete and can show a general idea of what kind of promotion work you do.

IMPORTANT: You must have and operate at least one website in order to create an Affiliate Account at ShareASale.com.2--> If you plan on doing most of your advertising and promotion using Pay Per Click, Google Adsense, Overture, etc... - you still must have a website that identifies your business, etc...

This in my opinion doesn't make sense and in combination with my application being declined it's even more confusing.

Let me first address point 1:

When someone submits a site in example dedicated to soccer in this stage of the process, it will become their Main domain as being said, which the Merchants will see and will judge to accept your acceptation or not with all the future applications by evaluating the Main domain...the soccer website.

Now how can this work?
Should i want to also apply for a specific program aimed for car stereos?

Naturally the Merchant will decline the application as the website shown to them is totally irrelevant.

So how can this work?
Therefor i had chosen to take the second approach....which leads me to point two.

Second point:

So since i haven't have an operational website up for the specific programs i have in mind yet i thought to set up a site to describe:

you still must have a website that identifies your business, etc...

and then my application got declined.

There are some nice domains i wish to use in conjunction with PopShops, the solution Linda blogged about a little while ago, which seemed like a great way to get something going but here comes the chicken and the egg analogy in to play...

Dilemma: I need to have an affiliate ID to set it up correctly and I'm not going to set up shop knowing i wouldn't be credited should a sale occur not to mention to have my site indexed with the risk of not being accepted after all.

I want to start out right and on top of that when i try to change the domain in my application access to Shareasale is being denied...pending application!

It wouldn't matter anyway probably as this portion was also being mentioned in the application denied email:

Your site also must be up and operational (viewable) in order for us to approve you

Indeed, a dilemma.

Please provide as much detail as possible when applying so that we can review your application accurately.

As much detail as possible?
But going through the sign up process this being asked from someone applying:

Please provide a brief Description (less than 240 characters) of your site or your marketing plans. You don't need to go into detail about specifics, but anything that you can describe about what you do will help individual merchants make decisions about applications to their programs.

Your not making it easy for me Shareasale, or is this intended to be like this?
I mean, Shareasale is hopefully interested in attracting new affiliates with motivation? or are only people allowed with high traffic websites?

Is Shareasale not intended for starters?


Thank you for listening.

Edwin

[Linda Buquet]

Hi Edwin,

I think the dilemma you are facing is due to all the fraud affiliates that make it hard for everyone.

Realize that fake affiliates sign up pretending to be me for instance. They list my site, my home address and everything. There's a Chinese affiliate fraud ring that a year ago joinined over 50 programs on most of the main networks pretending to be me. Then they made sales with bogus credit cards, changed the pay-to address and collected the checks. I was accused several times of fraud. These fraudsters do fake apps pretending to be Shawn Collins or the Wall Street Journal or littlejoesmomandpopshop.com.

Some networks get 100 fraud applications a DAY!

So that's partly why you have to jump through hoops and thats why they need to see a site, to try at least to match up and verify your identity.
I think possibly the directions are also a little confusing so that someone that's either just signing up on a whim or someone from a 3rd world country - it wont be an easy slam dunk to sign up.

I think the 1st app and seeing a site is just to get approved by Shareasale. Then after you are into the network you need to join each separate merchant then in the comments for each you merchant you can explain you have a new soccer domain or whatever you plan to do. Many of the SAS merchant are on auto-approve too and don't even review your site. (Bad practice.)

So I suggest you get a little site up. Part of the reason they want to see at least one site is to be sure it's not filled with porn or spyware.

You need to write some content anyway for your popshops site. You can't just throw up a feed - you need some unique spiderfood. So get some content up, then after you get the datafeeds you can break up the content to put on the appropriate category pages or whatever.

So using the soccer example put up 3 pages or so of articles about soccer. With links to some resources about soccer and maybe some public domain pics from flickr.

I'm not sure if this would fly, but if were me, I'd even be tempted to put a paragraph at top of homepage saying this is a rough draft beginning of a site you plan to build out with SAS merchants after you are approved. (don't put site under construction, SE don't like that.)

If after doing all that you still get declined then see if you can get through to a real person at SAS or post over in the SAS forum at a best web.

Hope this helps and best of luck!
Let us know how you do.

[-Edwin-]

Hi Linda, Thank you for your reply.

I think the dilemma you are facing is due to all the fraud affiliates that make it hard for everyone.

Realize that fake affiliates sign up pretending to be me for instance. They list my site, my home address and everything. There's a Chinese affiliate fraud ring that a year ago joinined over 50 programs on most of the main networks pretending to be me. Then they made sales with bogus credit cards, changed the pay-to address and collected the checks. I was accused several times of fraud. These fraudsters do fake apps pretending to be Shawn Collins or the Wall Street Journal or littlejoesmomandpopshop.com.

Some networks get 100 fraud applications a DAY!

So that's partly why you have to jump through hoops and thats why they need to see a site, to try at least to match up and verify your identity.

I can see what you mean, I'm sorry to hear what happened to you.
If they need to verify my site an email to my admin email address would mean i am the owner of the domain.

It's not necessary to ask for more concerning verification of identity.

All is needed is a confirmation link to be set up to confirm ownership of a domain.

Showing a working site does not ad any value in security whatsoever, should someone else want to try to pretend to be me then they need access to my admin email of my domain and should it be that another party besides myself has unauthorized access they can do what they want anyways should i not catch it in time.

Someone can easily use the forgot password function to have access to the registrar account to change the nameservers to a hosting solution putting a site up all without me knowing.

So if Shareasale would think that having a site up is a "barrier" of some sort to prevent fraud it's not.
The only effective manor to verify domain ownership identity is by verification through a confirmation and that's basically all you have. And that's what being done by Shareasale so what's up with all the extra pointless hoops I'm being presented?

You can make security somewhat tighter by sending out a snail mail letter with a security PIN of some sort to the registered address of the applicant in the WHOIS details for the domain.

Domain privacy services would forward the mail to the registered owner so a Private domain registration service wouldn't be a problem as well.
That would make it even more secure instead of thinking a viewable site is a measure of security.

It means nothing really.

Adding a snail mail security feature would mean something.
Someone from a 3rd world country could then never pretend to be me, they would also need access to my postal mailing address.

With the current protocol in place one only needs to have access to the admin email address.

Going through hoops is part of the world we're living in due to the bad practices of other people but this is just outright silly.


There are some misleading points in the signup process that i pointed out that should be worded differently to have some clarity.

If there is a way to send details about a domain you wish to use when applying for a Merchant program to the Merchant then this should be made clear in the copy.

Instead they give the person signing up the impression they will be evaluated every time by a Merchant based on their "Main" domain.

Part of the reason they want to see at least one site is to be sure it's not filled with porn or spyware.

Intention is right but effectiveness is next to zero as someone who is trying to install spyware through the website will not host it in the application phase but add this when everything is in order.

The anti fraud "measures" besides the confirmation email that i see are a joke and making it difficult for genuine people that want to be part of a solid network.

You need to write some content anyway for your popshops site. You can't just throw up a feed - you need some unique spiderfood. So get some content up, then after you get the datafeeds you can break up the content to put on the appropriate category pages or whatever.

I'll do as you suggest Linda and see how that works out.

Thanks!

[Linda Buquet]

Well I should add that obviously I don't work for SAS and didn't set up their system and don't know their rationale. Was just providing some feedback in general about why it can be tough to get signed up at networks.

Brian the owner is VERY open to feedback and changes but I don't think he reads our forum or at least he isnt active yet.

I also never see any complaints about SAS so am a little surprised the sign up process is so frustrating for you.

Hope it all gets worked out.

[AffiliateGuild]

Originally Posted by Linda Buquet

Realize that fake affiliates sign up pretending to be me for instance.

Another reason that most of the bigger affiliates hide their identity.

Because of SO MUCH fraud in these other countries, a lot of AMs just decline all apps from most other countries. The reasoning is that if the fraud happens in the USA, we can prosecute, but we can't do anything in those other countries. So, why take the risk??!!!! It's just not worth it.

I have a super affiliate friend who is currently fighting identity theft from a senario just like Linda described. That friend just had to hire an attorney to get things resolved with the creditors now plaguing them. It totally sucks and it's VERY costly to resolve.

[-Edwin-]

Originally Posted by Linda Buquet

Well I should add that obviously I don't work for SAS and didn't set up their system and don't know their rationale. Was just providing some feedback in general about why it can be tough to get signed up at networks.

I understand Linda Your feedback is appreciated 100%!

Brian the owner is VERY open to feedback and changes but I don't think he reads our forum or at least he isnt active yet.

That's too bad. I hope Brian will visit the Shareasale forum from time to time in the future, even better subscribe to this section to monitor feedback or questions, events related to Shareasale.

I also never see any complaints about SAS so am a little surprised the sign up process is so frustrating for you.

Same here Linda.

Hope it all gets worked out.

I'm sure it will, I'm in the middle of creating a viewable site on the actual domain for a specific merchant they have in their inventory.
So i hope that would resolve everything.

I have a super affiliate friend who is currently fighting identity theft from a senario just like Linda described.

Those are real serious and nasty situations to be in.
A situation that could be easily avoided by the AFF Network in most cases in the first place, not by just denying applications from abroad but by doing a proper verification process.

The AFF Network has a big responsibility as well and if identity fraud has taken place it's because in the majority of events the measures that could have been taken where not done at all or poorly.
Which put the blame at those type of networks by being so careless.

If precautions are being made you can reduce the chance of ID theft substantially.

[Linda Buquet]

"A situation that could be easily avoided by the AFF Network in most cases in the first place, not by just denying applications from abroad but by doing a proper verification process."

TRUE!

The way I found out about my identity theft-affiliate fraud situation was that I got 2 calls within an hour from 2 networks saying welcome to our network, we just wanted to verify it was you that signed up. They both tell me the get hundreds of fake apps. All the other networks just let them in a paid them some merchants money without verifying who they were.

RE SAS - I'm going to email Brian and Carolyn and let them know about this thread since you raise lots of great issues and I don't have the answers, but can only try to guess. Plus I'll ask them to subscribe, like you said so they can keep on top of other issues that may come up.

Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. I'm sure they will appreciate it and hopefully have some answers for you.

[AffiliateGuild]

RE SAS - I'm going to email Brian and Carolyn and let them know about this thread since you raise lots of great issues and I don't have the answers, but can only try to guess. Plus I'll ask them to subscribe, like you said so they can keep on top of other issues that may come up.

Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. I'm sure they will appreciate it and hopefully have some answers for you.

It would be awesome to hear from Brian here and have him involved with us. I think there's a lot of his affiliates here ... I'm one!

[Linda Buquet]

Yep me too! Just emailed him and CCed Carolyn so hopefully
one or both of them will be by soon!

[Linda Buquet]

Hi Edwin et all,

Brian emailed me back a couple hours ago but I was away.
He said he's swamped right now trying to get checks out
and paying you guys is a pretty big priority.
He'll try to get over later.

So he asked me to tell Edwin this:

"In the meantime, have Edwin email me his username or email address he signed up under and I will look into his account right away. It is probably just a case of a little over-exuberance on the part of our application team. As you said, we (and many other networks) receive hundreds of bad apps every day…"

Edwin PM me if you need his email address.